During the 1228, it would appear that which exact same Clemence along with her partner Nicholas have been selected to get child custody out-of Joanna and you may Llywelyn's child Susanna (aged regarding the 14?). seems to be to the child to-be elevated within the a safe and you may secure ecosystem towards the chance for a much better knowledge. the truth had been becoming kept regarding their own. Brand new custodial offer are by Queen Henry III, half-sister so you can Joanna and you may 1 / 2 of-brother so you can Susanna, yet the decree titled Susanna, Henry's ‘niece' and you can Joanna, Henry's ‘sister'.'
A question today presents alone. If the Joanna is actually the newest daughter of Clemence ce Boteler, regarding, frequently a keen English household, how do we describe what Joanna are carrying out from inside the France when Queen John sent to have her inside the 1203? That you'll response is you to definitely Clemence's dad, Philip ce Boteler try French, rather than English. It actually was very common at that time for all those to hold characteristics to your each party of one's Channel. This ed their dilies compared to English family during this time period.
The only guide where We have found a mention of the Clemence Pinel – wife away from Henry Pinel (aside from Charles Cawley when you look at the Wikipedia) is actually Alison Weir's ‘England's Royal Families: The entire Family history (London, 1989).' This kadД±nlar HД±rvatГ§a book was listed because of the one to genealogist because ‘not very totally annotated.' My personal trawl from the family history discussion boards found scant reference towards the Pinel family relations, including Clemence's spouse Henry Pinel. Numerous entries recommend that Joanna is actually the brand new daughter regarding Henry Pinel along with his spouse Clemence, however, zero present, able to be featured, are offered. I'm hence inclined to disregard so it woman off after that studies. I could getting very incorrect.
Amount of Mortain, inside the Normandy, understood off their own [and maybe
Clemence de Fougers is the latest aunt out of Richard de Hommet, Constable of Normandy, and you may Geoffrey de Fougeres. Her father is William du Fougers. I've no big date from birth (otherwise death) out of Clemence, however, she was initially hitched ahead of 1200 (no day available) so you can Alan de Dinan, and is popular sufficient to get married in October 1200, because the their 2nd partner, Ranulph de- Blundeville, Earl regarding Chester and you can Vicomte d'Avranches, has just divorced (marriage annulled?) out of Constance off Brittany.
In 1189, aged seventeen, Ranulph had been married to Constance of Brittany the widow of Henry 11 ‘s son Geoffrey, and the mother of Arthur of Brittany with whom King John contested the succession. Henry did not trust the Countess and wanted her married to a magnate he could trust. The marriage gave Ranulph control of the earldom of Richmond and the duchy of Brittany, but it was not a success (see subject 6. below). The couple had no issue and they separated. It was rumoured one Earl Ranulph divorced Constance in order to have had an affair that have King John!
Obviously, would so it Clemence end up being the mommy of Joanna, she’d be also the fresh granny regarding Susanna, even though there isn’t any need to think that the more youthful Joanna understood, right now, that there is actually a family relationship, in the event the
Because Clemence de Fougers was daughter and you can sister of Constables off Normandy, It is consider possible that John, *knew* her, ahead of their own relationship to help you Ranulph]. A close connection to John you are going to define what would hunt an extremely advantageous second marriage for Clemence to help you Ranulph.
Ranulph, 6 th Earl regarding Chester although not, try an effective baron and it beggars faith, at least in my situation, he might have accepted a married relationship so you can a lady who had got a known fling and a following child of the John, Number from Mortain certain a decade in the past. Such as for instance because of the rumours related a prospective affair between John and you can his first partner Constance!
